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Nominations Queries 3

  • Feb. 11th, 2020 at 7:30 PM
(If you haven't yet, please vote in the poll about IF in Space Swap, and comment on it if you find the poll questions imprecise.)

Original Work: The following tags are too generic (and for Original Characters, violates the nominations instructions). Please nominate more specific things.
Original Characters
relationship: original character & original character
relationship: original character & original characters
relationship: original character/original character
worldbuilding: original planet
worldbuilding: transport and traveling

Good Omens (TV): Is there space (travel)?

Alien Quadrilogy: Is this the same thing as Alien (Prequel Movies)?

Star Wars - All Media Types: Please renominate under the fandoms decided at the franchise wrangling post. (We also have a separate Star Wars Crossovers fandom.)

Marvel Cinematic Universe: This wasn't discussed at the franchise wrangling – is this umbrella fandom OK, or do people want to chop it up? Use the umbrella.

Lost tags: The following tags have lost their association. Where do they belong?
Relationship: Isaac Clarke/Ellie Langford
Worldbuilding: Sangheili Culture

Comments

(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 05:55 pm (UTC)
Alien Quadrilogy: Is this the same thing as Alien (Prequel Movies)?

Nope! Prequel movies are the "Prequel series" as listed on Wikipedia, and the Quadrilogy is the "Original series":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(franchise)#Films
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 05:58 pm (UTC)
That's what I get for trying to osmose chronological order of films. *g* It's in!
flowersforgraves: Connor MacManus (Boondock Saints), in profile facing right. (Default)
[personal profile] flowersforgraves wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 06:21 pm (UTC)
not the nominator but Sangheili are from HALO (and might also be present in Red vs Blue)
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 08:43 pm (UTC)
Red vs Blue isn't in the tagset, so HALO it is. Ty!
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 08:24 pm (UTC)
In Good Omens they talk about going to Alpha Centauri, but there’s no actual space travel. There is an alien with a spaceship, but whether it actually traveled in space or is conjured from the imagination is debatable.
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 08:50 pm (UTC)
Could you please elaborate on the situation? Is the alien an actual alien of some sort (= from another planet), or something related to the Christian mythology of the show? Which side of the "traveled in space" vs "conjured from imagination" debate is canon most likely on? How does the level of space compare to e.g. Superman's origin story?
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 09:45 pm (UTC)
Basically a lot of weird things start to happen because the 11-year-old antichrist reads/hears some conspiracy theories, one of which is alien encounters. Others include vanishing nuclear power plants, the kraken emerging, Tibetans teleporting to the UK, and Atlantis appearing. (I think? I don’t entirely remember which of those are in the book and which are in the show. But the alien is definitely in both.) The alien, specifically, is confused about being on Earth and possibly was teleported and forced into the role, but also could’ve been imagined entirely. It’s a fairly short joke and not elaborated on, really? Personally I would not count Good Omens as space but idk.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 08:37 pm (UTC)
good omens might be in reference to how one of the characters made certain stars in the early days of creation? the character's past with it and his desire to travel space is only ever talked about though, not shown from what i recall.
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 08:57 pm (UTC)
Hm. This sounds a bit edge case-y. Could you describe more about what the show states about the early days of creation and star-making? Or your take on the possible spaceship mentioned by the other anon?
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2020 01:45 am (UTC)
the character is looking at pictures of the universe and comments "beautiful nebula - i helped build that one", which i thiiink is the only time it comes up. there was also an earlier voice over from "god" explaining which theories about the universe's creation are right and wrong. there isn't anything specific about how things were made or what took place, just when it happened and how long it took.

since these are all brief references to before the main storyline and characters are introduced i personally wouldn't count the show as space-themed unless there person who nominated it has more to add.

i also agree with the other anon that the spaceship scene is more of a joke stemming from a kid's imagination than actual aliens existing in their universe. it's also a short occurrence that's pretty irrelevant to the main characters and has no real impact on the story.

while there was a scene where a character contemplates escaping earth and going to space (he's a demon and would likely be able to do it through his abilities) he never leaves earth. i also don't think there was any established space-faring going on that we heard about either, which leaves it more to headcanons than actual canon.

ultimately i think the fandom tends to expand on those references which makes them feel like bigger parts of the show than they actually were. so imo the show by itself doesn't have much to offer for the spacey theme.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2020 07:15 am (UTC)
I was the nominator, and I'm happy to go with the the majority on this, which seems to be that the mentions are too minimal. For what it's worth, it's the worldbuilding about having made the stars and going to Alpha Centauri and meeting aliens that I wanted specifically for this challenge. It seemed silly and disingenuous to nominate "Worldbuilding: angel and demon explore space" as an original prompt.
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2020 04:55 pm (UTC)
If you wish to explain more/argue for its inclusion, please do – I haven't made my judgement yet. (And FWIW, the original prompt is perfectly fine, and I've accepted it.)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 15th, 2020 07:27 am (UTC)
Okay, as others have mentioned, the stuff about space travel and stars is present and comes up several times in Good Omens, plus things like the "Earth Observation" idea that happens at one point, and Aziraphale teleporting to Earth from the ethereal realm, but those things are not a major focus of the plot.

However, I think they are more important in terms of theme and characterisation, because they are a central part of the mise en scene. I think the juxtaposition between science (Humanity) and religion/belief (the ethereal/occult) is a pretty key theme. It's mostly played for laughs, because that's the show, but there's also a serious underpinning about how Original Sin (as bestowed by Crowley) is what enabled Human invention as well as cruelty, and fire (as bestowed by Aziraphale) did the same. So Crowley, the Serpent of Eden, having created stars, and then wanting to run away to them when Armageddon approaches is this fascinating thread I want to read/watch more about. I think it's pretty central to his character, and echoes the Fall in interesting ways.

I agree with the commenters above that the fandom as a whole isn't a good match for a challenge about space, but I didn't know how to add a prompt for this one aspect of the show without also using the Good Omens tag. The original worldbuilding tag I added will also allow exploration of the themes I'm interesting, but at the risk of losing the humour and irreverence that's so central to my enjoyment of the exploration of these kind of themes. Terry Pratchett's cleverness and humour with philosophy and science is really key to how well the tapestry of the story weaves together.

So that's why I think that one aspect of Good Omens *is* a good match for Space Swap, in a way that the bare worldbuilding tag doesn't really capture.
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 15th, 2020 05:56 pm (UTC)
I prefer not to make decisions of inclusion based on thematics, since that is more open to interpretation. So I have some questions based on the content of the show:

When it comes to space, is there anything about the characters traveling through space, or is it something like "Crowley spraypainted the heavenly sphere, then they pressed the expand button and now the stars are far away"? Is the ethereal realm a different dimension, or a different non-Earth world?
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 15th, 2020 06:15 pm (UTC)
Honestly, I'm not so invested that I want to spend more time on this. Just reject it. The answer to both questions is yes, but it's really brief, and the show tips more on the side of fantasy than SF. I just wanted a fanwork exploring taking a space focus on that one aspect of the show, but it's not worth bending the fest to the breaking point.
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 15th, 2020 06:16 pm (UTC)
All right.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 08:45 pm (UTC)
Not (yet) a nominator for it, but strongly in favour of MCU being the umbrella fandom. There are arguably three different elements of the franchise with significant space elements (the Guardians, Asgardian stuff in the Thor movies, and the Kree and Skrull stuff from Captain Marvel) but they all intersected in Infinity War/Endgame.
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 08:57 pm (UTC)
I'll approve them under the umbrella fandom. Thank you!
(Anonymous) wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2020 11:38 pm (UTC)
Isaac Clarke & Ellie Langford are from the Dead Space videogame series.
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 12th, 2020 04:47 pm (UTC)
Thank you. It's added.
thisbluespirit: (s&s)
[personal profile] thisbluespirit wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2020 05:13 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this comment, but - I'm thinking of nominating Sapphire & Steel which I think does qualify under your definitions, but it is fair to say that it's borderline as it's certainly not thought of primarily as a space fandom, though it is definitely SF. (It's about time and the lead characters are mysterious beings of which we know very little for sure. I'll call them Elements here, which we mostly do, but if I sound uncertain it's because the whole thing is a mystery.)

Canonical space stuff -

* Actual space travel (if not conventional) as a highly significant thing in Assignment 6 (one frequently written about in fic). (You can put all of space in a box, or put people in a box floating in space.)
* The title sequence states "All irregularities will be handled by the forces controlling each dimension. Transuranic heavy elements may not be used where there is life. Medium atomic weights are available..." i.e. Transuranic elements must be being used in space/uninhabited planets by implication (life would certainly include non-sentient life). (Original elements are a thing in the fandom.)
* Sapphire, when asked if she is an alien says "Only in the non-terrestrial sense" which just begs more questions.
* The Big Finish audio continuation features an assignment on a space shuttle (zero)

Implied stuff & worldbuilding: lead characters are non-human beings who presumably can be anywhere the elements/minerals are found, do not age, and may or may not move linearly through time. Wherever humans will eventually be found, they will presumably be also, trying to fix things, so there is canonically no limit on time period/location set by canon. (Steel dealt with the Mary Celeste, Silver is so old that Steel can't imagine him having a beginning; Sapphire feels the same way about Steel; Assignment 3 features humans travelling in time from the future to the present; Assignment 6 may not be set anywhere real.)
They can therefore also crossover with pretty much anything too.

Also speculation about their nature, orgins, 'non-terrestrial home (if they have one), their relation to the universe, space and time etc.

But it is a weird one, I realise!

Edited 2020-02-13 05:15 pm (UTC)
extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2020 05:18 pm (UTC)
Things where e.g. a race of aliens turns up with a space ship thousands of years before present and the space ship isn't mentioned again, or where one single alien gets sent from a dying homeworld to Earth and never sees aliens again, are eligible. Does that answer your question?
thisbluespirit: (s&s - silver)
[personal profile] thisbluespirit wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2020 05:22 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure? I mean, I think its fits, but then I'd like it to!!

There are no races of aliens in it, though. Apart from the Elements, but they're weirder and more mysterious than that and I would hesitate to categorise them as coventional aliens of any sort. But, as I said, there is canonical space travel at the end and implied presence out in space/on other planets, plus worldbuilding implications when it comes to the nature of Elements, so I was thinking it probably should fit?

extrapenguin: Picture of the Horsehead Nebula, with the horse wearing a hat and the text "MOD". (ssmod)
[personal profile] extrapenguin wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2020 05:24 pm (UTC)
Sounds like it fits. Happy nomming!
thisbluespirit: (s&s - sapphire)
[personal profile] thisbluespirit wrote:
Feb. 13th, 2020 05:27 pm (UTC)
Thanks!